Post by Suzie Q on Jan 5, 2007 22:50:36 GMT -5
Everything was going well with my 4 remaining betta fry until this morning. They are (were) around 10 weeks old. I wanted to post this, so maybe if someone has had this problem, or may have this problem in the future, this is the steps that Carlrs and I took (via email) to try to save my babies.
Thanks to all Carlrs' help, they survived for a week or two longer than the would have. All credit for them making this far should go to him. Thank you Carlrs.
ME:
As I said, I got my meds yesterday, but did not use any of the meds because all was going well. This morning I got up and feed the babies...all seemed well. Before I left for work though...all was not well. The big baby looked funny...staying right at the water line...very weird for him....I immediately cleaned the bottom of the tank (due to clean this afternoon anyway)...did about 1/3 water change (took that much to clean bottom with "big" siphon)...I wanted to get any and all leftover food out of the tank from this morning (have been very careful NOT to over feed). I added 1 gal of water back in there to "dilute" the water, but wanted to wait on the other 2 gal. for this afternoon as not to raise the temp of the water to fast. I added the wonder shell, and the plant thing (forgot what you said it was). Anyway, I was running late for work, so I did not do the Meth Blue dip...planning on doing it as soon as I walked in the door. I did not get off work until after 5:30pm, and went to ck on the Baby immediately. The big one is dead (this is the one showing color). I am in the process of doing the Meth Blue dip on the 3 surviving babies. The dead one was kinda swollen looking, and all fins were standing erect. He did not look to have "dropsy", but again, he was less than an inch long. Also, his/her ventricle looked "blown out" (I don't know how else to describe it). Any ideas on what may have happeded?
Carlrs:
I am really sorry to hear this. Obviously there is a systemic infection in your aquarium.
Do NOT put the plant thing in yet (the USNEA), this needs to be boiled like tea, and you use a small 1" x1" sprig per 10 -20 gallons.
Perform the dips twice per day, but based on the swelling you noticed, also treat with the Kanamyacin every other day for a total of three or four treatments. The Kanacyn is more important than the dip right now based on your babies symptoms (not that the Methylene blue will not help). Add the Kanacyn after water changes (not before) also remove any carbon or zeolite (Ammo Carb) from any filters.
Good Luck, and keep me and others posted.
ME:
Ok, kanacyn in tank. I'll do the "tea" dip maybe tomorrow. I assume that it is 1 cup of water (treated) with one "sprig" of USNEA. Do I ever put the "live" plant in the tank? I guess boiling it will kill the plant.
Lets hope for the best!
I am going to spawn these two again next spring, to see if it is a genetic problem. They were doing so good after all the other problems I had had. I am really upset about this. I will be more ready in the spring I think. I now have a sponge filter.
Carlrs:
Not a tea dip, the Usnea is for in tank treatment, after you are done with Kanamyacin. The Usnea is a lichen actually, not a true plant. Please continue performing methylene blue dips for at least 3 days.
I have more information about using Usnea and methylene blue here (as wll as Kanamyacin as well). Here is the article:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html
Good luck and keep in touch.
ME:
I don't expect them to make it . Here is one last symptom. The three I have left are "small" "med" " and "large". The "Med" is dead, the small is nowhere to be found (probably in the plants), and the large is having spasms. He is very bloated (like his swimbladder is enlarged). He is "stuck" at the top of the tank. He "rolls" when he tries to swim. Any ideas? I guess treatment was too little, too late. I know you are not a fish doctor, but you have seen a lot in your business.
Thanks for your help. I will be more ready in the spring (conditioned sponge filter). This has been a heart breaking, but learning experience. Of course, if this is a genetic problem, I will know in the spring. Each loss is a lesson on what to do and not do. I have learned to clean the tank daily, and not do such drastic water changes. I also learned to be prepared fully, and not half-ass it. I think better filtration is needed, and mine was inadequate for what I was trying to accomplish.
I finally got them to 10 weeks, and I know that I am not the only one to loose broods when first starting out. Until spring, I will work on getting my plants to grow and survive....can I grow the Usnea? I mean because I will have an empty tank. It came dried out, so is it dead? If it can be grown, I'd harvest it and dry it also so I would have plenty for next yr...am I being stupid? Sorry, I am a little upset.
Carlrs:
Sorry that things look bad.
Even though I am not a fish doctor, I have seen a lot (not mention spending educational time learning the ins and outs of meds with a MD who "took me under his wing" many years back. This sounds like an aeromonas bacterial infection, which is often systemic and opportunistic. The Kanamycin is not too little but unfortunately maybe too late, but try it and the methylene blue dips anyway. As this is most likely aeromonas which is opportunistic, your sponge filter will improve your bio conditions at least for future broods, performing smaller more efficient water changes will also help in the future. This said; please do not give up quite yet.
The Usnea grows in damp temperate forests, so duplicating it will take some effort, but if you do use it in the future and achieve good results, I can get more (it is common in the forests here in the Winter). But again, this is not the med to use for your current problem, the Kanacyn and Methylene Blue dips are.
ME:
Last email on babies....They are all gone.
Carlrs:
Sorry,
it sounds like the infection moved very fast. Keep the tank going though and let it lay fallow for a few weeks. You might consider treating with the Pimafix as a safe herbal treatment for aeromonas.
Thanks to all Carlrs' help, they survived for a week or two longer than the would have. All credit for them making this far should go to him. Thank you Carlrs.
ME:
As I said, I got my meds yesterday, but did not use any of the meds because all was going well. This morning I got up and feed the babies...all seemed well. Before I left for work though...all was not well. The big baby looked funny...staying right at the water line...very weird for him....I immediately cleaned the bottom of the tank (due to clean this afternoon anyway)...did about 1/3 water change (took that much to clean bottom with "big" siphon)...I wanted to get any and all leftover food out of the tank from this morning (have been very careful NOT to over feed). I added 1 gal of water back in there to "dilute" the water, but wanted to wait on the other 2 gal. for this afternoon as not to raise the temp of the water to fast. I added the wonder shell, and the plant thing (forgot what you said it was). Anyway, I was running late for work, so I did not do the Meth Blue dip...planning on doing it as soon as I walked in the door. I did not get off work until after 5:30pm, and went to ck on the Baby immediately. The big one is dead (this is the one showing color). I am in the process of doing the Meth Blue dip on the 3 surviving babies. The dead one was kinda swollen looking, and all fins were standing erect. He did not look to have "dropsy", but again, he was less than an inch long. Also, his/her ventricle looked "blown out" (I don't know how else to describe it). Any ideas on what may have happeded?
Carlrs:
I am really sorry to hear this. Obviously there is a systemic infection in your aquarium.
Do NOT put the plant thing in yet (the USNEA), this needs to be boiled like tea, and you use a small 1" x1" sprig per 10 -20 gallons.
Perform the dips twice per day, but based on the swelling you noticed, also treat with the Kanamyacin every other day for a total of three or four treatments. The Kanacyn is more important than the dip right now based on your babies symptoms (not that the Methylene blue will not help). Add the Kanacyn after water changes (not before) also remove any carbon or zeolite (Ammo Carb) from any filters.
Good Luck, and keep me and others posted.
ME:
Ok, kanacyn in tank. I'll do the "tea" dip maybe tomorrow. I assume that it is 1 cup of water (treated) with one "sprig" of USNEA. Do I ever put the "live" plant in the tank? I guess boiling it will kill the plant.
Lets hope for the best!
I am going to spawn these two again next spring, to see if it is a genetic problem. They were doing so good after all the other problems I had had. I am really upset about this. I will be more ready in the spring I think. I now have a sponge filter.
Carlrs:
Not a tea dip, the Usnea is for in tank treatment, after you are done with Kanamyacin. The Usnea is a lichen actually, not a true plant. Please continue performing methylene blue dips for at least 3 days.
I have more information about using Usnea and methylene blue here (as wll as Kanamyacin as well). Here is the article:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html
Good luck and keep in touch.
ME:
I don't expect them to make it . Here is one last symptom. The three I have left are "small" "med" " and "large". The "Med" is dead, the small is nowhere to be found (probably in the plants), and the large is having spasms. He is very bloated (like his swimbladder is enlarged). He is "stuck" at the top of the tank. He "rolls" when he tries to swim. Any ideas? I guess treatment was too little, too late. I know you are not a fish doctor, but you have seen a lot in your business.
Thanks for your help. I will be more ready in the spring (conditioned sponge filter). This has been a heart breaking, but learning experience. Of course, if this is a genetic problem, I will know in the spring. Each loss is a lesson on what to do and not do. I have learned to clean the tank daily, and not do such drastic water changes. I also learned to be prepared fully, and not half-ass it. I think better filtration is needed, and mine was inadequate for what I was trying to accomplish.
I finally got them to 10 weeks, and I know that I am not the only one to loose broods when first starting out. Until spring, I will work on getting my plants to grow and survive....can I grow the Usnea? I mean because I will have an empty tank. It came dried out, so is it dead? If it can be grown, I'd harvest it and dry it also so I would have plenty for next yr...am I being stupid? Sorry, I am a little upset.
Carlrs:
Sorry that things look bad.
Even though I am not a fish doctor, I have seen a lot (not mention spending educational time learning the ins and outs of meds with a MD who "took me under his wing" many years back. This sounds like an aeromonas bacterial infection, which is often systemic and opportunistic. The Kanamycin is not too little but unfortunately maybe too late, but try it and the methylene blue dips anyway. As this is most likely aeromonas which is opportunistic, your sponge filter will improve your bio conditions at least for future broods, performing smaller more efficient water changes will also help in the future. This said; please do not give up quite yet.
The Usnea grows in damp temperate forests, so duplicating it will take some effort, but if you do use it in the future and achieve good results, I can get more (it is common in the forests here in the Winter). But again, this is not the med to use for your current problem, the Kanacyn and Methylene Blue dips are.
ME:
Last email on babies....They are all gone.
Carlrs:
Sorry,
it sounds like the infection moved very fast. Keep the tank going though and let it lay fallow for a few weeks. You might consider treating with the Pimafix as a safe herbal treatment for aeromonas.